
“We Are The Flash.” Or, The Phrase That Triggered a Thousand Fanboys
- Fanboys were triggered.
- So very triggered.
- And this, kids, is why it’s important to read.
- I think this person may genuinely think that Iris is a real person.
- And I do mean TRIGGERED.
During a conversation with her then-fiancé, Iris West-Allen utters these fateful words because she wants to reiterate to her fiancé that when he asked her to marry him and share their lives together, it meant that he was no longer alone and that they face whatever happens to them together. Ignoring those in the audience who will be attending remedial English classes this year, fandom reacted with the vitriol of her telling Barry that they would be serving baked kittens as an entrée at their wedding. People called her selfish, a bitch, and an “abusive speed force digger.” Memes abounded – some funny, most just a version of the same meme – and even four months later saying “We are the Flash” will send your typical Flash fanboy into cataclysmic rage, system failure, or both. It was – and is – kind of amazing. It’s quite entertaining because not only were those not Iris’ actual words, but because Barry’s said it to Iris a million times before but it’s only a problem when Iris says it. For some reason. But this is about shipping, primarily, and the reaction of fans to “We Are The Flash” is one of the most damning pieces of evidence for calling them racist.
Iris West, in the comics, is a reporter. The show started out with something of an origin story for her as she went from writing about The Flash to instill belief in Barry, then for the whole city, and then was offered a job on this basis. During the second and third seasons, her job was shown a lot less, and during season 4 as Iris becomes leader of Team Flash, she hasn’t mentioned it at all.
While I was happy that Iris became the leader of the team because it gave her more agency and the team a level-headed leader while allowing Barry to lead everyone in the field, I was somewhat disappointed with this. Not because I think Iris quit her job – the writers have a rather ridiculous habit of leaving things ambiguous until they want to address them, so at some point in the future they’ll probably reveal she was working there all along and doing this in her spare time, like Barry does, and we’ll all roll our eyes at the lazy writing. This isn’t implausible, as Barry, Joe, and Iris regularly showed up at STAR Labs during all hours of the day in previous seasons but still kept up gainful employment, apparently. But I was disappointed because Iris – along with Joe and Barry – is one of the few characters on the show who could be used to explore the world of The Flash. Basically, it was a way to get out of the S.T.A.R. Labs basement, which is quickly becoming my most-hated set. Seeing Barry, Iris, and Joe at work, or Wally talk about school, or even Ralph act like an ass to his clients reminded us that there was a world beyond that place, and gives us a reason to get invested because people – not just Barry and his friends – could get hurt. Iris being the team leader and never being shown at work, in conjunction with Barry and Joe basically making cameos at work, Ralph joining the team, and Wally disappearing entirely, just means that we’re always sequestered in S.T.A.R. Labs.
In any case, Iris as the team leader this season is logical, and a great way to make her the anchor of the team since she’s usually the anchor in the comics. However, there are people that disagree with me. Rather than get into why they’re wrong, let’s look at one of the justifications for Iris not being the leader – that everyone liked Iris much better when she was a reporter, she needs to get back to it, and that she’d be better written if we could see her doing her job.
- Sometimes, fans just say that they want Iris away from the action.
- No, sometimes they literally say exactly what they want.
- Since I cannot recall a time where Caitlin has ever been “in charge,” this shows that their problem is that Iris is more important than Caitlin.
First of all, that’s a lie. Everyone did not like her better when she was a reporter; they called her a reckless idiot who didn’t listen to instructions and had to be rescued by Barry because she kept wandering into danger, and that her journalism was useless and had no place on a superhero show. They liked her at a specific point in season 2 because she appeared just enough times to let the audience know she was still breathing and had a job, but not enough so that she could get in the way of Barry dating Patty Spivot. But, like I said, it’s hard to see the sincerity when these same fans have already been so hateful to Iris and so unwilling to give her the benefit of the doubt. Why, after three years of hating on her, on her job, on her position in the narrative, would Iris writing some articles here and there suddenly make them love her? Why would anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together to make three believe them when they say that? Easy – they wouldn’t. I’m sure that there are many who want Iris to have a reporting arc, especially as it could be a way for the team to get information. And I’m sure they’d like to see Iris interacting at work with different people. But for some fans, their main purpose is twofold: to distance Iris from the main plot of the show as a main player, and to put her back in her rightful place.
- Obvious again.
- Iris giving orders takes screen time away from Wally. Because reasons.
- Fans are very upset at Caitlin and Cisco taking instructions from Iris because…metahumans don’t take instructions?
- I don’t even know what this means. But, again, Iris isn’t actually a part of the team. For some reason.
- It’s funny how the Black woman is the one who’s stealing screen time when there are several other characters who got more screen time than Wally during the season. But that’s none of my business.
The show, unfortunately, does not like to change its format, so fans should expect to spend the vast majority of any given episode inside S.T.A.R. Labs. Putting Iris back at the newspaper will give her an arc, yes, but since she is the only character native there, they’ll necessarily have to devote less screen time to it, so we’ll see her less. Since, as we already know, Iris getting more than three lines per episode will make it “The Iris Show,” and we can’t have that, can we? Showing Barry and Joe at work, and Iris at work, and Cisco, Wells, and Caitlin at the Lab consistently, and for enough time that Barry/Joe’s work and Iris’ work have enough depth, means relegating those three to background characters, as their main role on the show is support. That, as we all know, would be blamed on Iris, who is always the first on the chopping block when it comes to undeserved screentime. Putting Iris at the paper while knowing that the show won’t leave S.T.A.R. Labs much is a great way to make it seem like they care about Iris’ development while knowing it’ll probably decrease her screen time, and her overall importance to the main plot. And, like I’ve continually said, some people think that Iris just doesn’t deserve to be part of the Flash stuff; despite being one of the few canon characters on this show, Iris should be relegated to being Barry’s wife and a journalist and that’s it. Equality, right? While this post talks about distancing in terms of fanworks, fans who don’t like Iris yet want her to go back to her job are trying to create distance between Iris and Barry, and therefore Iris and the plot.
- Interestingly enough, Caitlin, Cisco, and Harry have been doing the same thing they’ve been doing for three years. Their problem is that Iris is there telling them what to do.
- Damn. They ALMOST made it look like they care. Maybe next time?
- OK, swing and a miss. Once more for luck?
- Yeah no, never mind, the Black people gotta go.
Then there’s the journalism itself. I’m not going to bother to pretend that those fans will suddenly see journalism as a worthwhile profession if we see Iris doing it more, especially as there was a whole podcast about how two of them thought she was nothing but a baby machine in the comics. They want her to be able to give information to the team, but what does that make her? An informant, not as important as the scientists, in their eyes. You can bet that if Iris were bringing information through her contacts, they’ll be talking about how Cisco could get the information through a computer. Eventually, they’d just start calling her useless again, and as soon as she got into a little bit of danger because of her job she’d be a damsel in distress who needs to be killed off. They want her to go back to a job and a position that they can decry as less important. Because right now, she’s upsetting the hierarchy.
- Honestly, the most unusual thing about this is that they let Wally in the building.
- Fans seem to have confused themselves into thinking that Iris is somehow running STAR Labs, when she actually runs Team Flash – but then I suppose ignoring what’s onscreen is par for the course. Oh, and Iris is still only good for sex.
- So they just don’t want to see her face for a while. For reasons.
- Barry and Iris being in a relationship is apparently causing the rest of the team to suffer.
- SOMETHING about Iris’ face is so heinous that they must break up immediately and she must disappear.
And what hierarchy would that be? We’ll explore this more in the next section, but I can hypothesise something from what we’ve talked about. Barry, of course, is at the top. They want Caitlin to be with Barry, because the white woman deserves the hero of the series. Cisco keeps them together, fulfilling his role as funnyman who builds things for Barry and gets to kick ass with him, filling the Diversity™ quota that doesn’t threaten any of the white characters – as long as he remains in his place, that is. Wells is the asshole mentor that loves them despite their hijinks, and The Flash’s father figure – and therefore the most important father figure. (Fandom loves its asshole mentors – it makes them feel good in their soft, gooey centres. See Tony Stark/Peter Parker in Spider-Man: Homecoming and Bruce Wayne to the children he keeps adopting).
The Wests don’t tend to fare so well. Joe, Barry’s Mammy, can give him motivational speeches and give fuel to those who think Barry and Iris are brother and sister, but he’s not permitted to have his own personal life. Wally is okay as long as he doesn’t get too full of himself, but they mostly ignore him unless they complain about the fact that Iris is getting so much screen time. Iris can make appearances here and there, but only giving information; then she and Joe must melt into the background so the scientists can have all the glory. Then Barry can go home to Iris so she can get her five minutes of screentime per episode, boring Barry to tears while blathering about her work that isn’t as important as ~science, play her part as his emotional labourer, then go upstairs so she can fulfil her other role of satisfying Barry’s carnal urges. All so that they can sigh wistfully because Caitlin is the most important girl in his superhero life, and Caitlin is the most useful woman on the show, and why doesn’t Barry love Caitlin? Iris is just a useless journalist, they don’t need her, Cisco and Ralph can do her job, she’s Barry’s dickrider etc. etc. Being serious about making Iris a journalist, after three years of them calling her job stupid, is about getting her back to a position where they could more comfortably make fun of her, not about caring about her.
(I’m exaggerating, of course. Mostly. Partially. Eh).
- Fans are always very careful to say that Ralph isn’t the problem. They also seem to think that the writers are forbidding Barry to talk to Cisco and Caitlin.
- Raise your hand if you remember Caitlin and Cisco being Barry and Iris’ minions.
- I’m not sure what an “original dynamic” is.
“We are The Flash” ruins everything. It destroys the hierarchy. It puts her on the same position as Barry with regard to the narrative, and gives her credit for Barry’s success because she’s always been his inspiration. Iris, with her non-science and her lack of superpowers and her melanin (the real problem), don’t have to work for Barry to get to claim being part of The Flash’s success. It destroys the idea that you need some sort of world-changing special skill, like being a doctor or engineer or super-genius, to be important to the show. Black women are expected to labour for their position and especially for the love of anyone, let alone the lead character. It shows that Barry doesn’t need anyone but Iris.
Now, Barry has said this kind of thing before. Sure, he likes to wax poetic on the daily about Iris, but he’s said several times that there’s no Flash without Iris, or he couldn’t do this without her, etc. etc. It’s probably an allusion to the whole lightning rod scenario from the comics. But the reason people are still butthurt weeks later and Candice Patton has people wanting her killed off in her mentions (though that’s nothing new) is because Iris said it this time. It wasn’t a platitude bestowed upon her by her white husband; the Black woman claimed it for herself, and the narrative validated it. Barry’s even repeated it a couple of times, swiftly handling all the fanboys in their feelings because they think Barry’s being emasculated. While Barry once told Cisco, Caitlin, and Wells that they were all struck by the lightning and Caitlin once affirmed the fact that the four of them stopped a threat, Barry hasn’t dropped a memo in the group chat that they’re all The Flash. He allows her to share in his glory and take credit for it and, to fans, she hasn’t “worked for it” (Welfare Queen, alert!). Don’t forget, Iris’ emotional labour is meaningless, her contributions could have been done by someone else, and she doesn’t really love Barry.
So when they talk about Iris going back to being a journalist, it’s not just about cutting Iris out of his superhero life so they can claim she isn’t important to it. And the primary reason isn’t “maybe then I’ll like her better.” It’s because she’s rising too far above her station and they want her to be in a position they can comfortably devalue. The reasoning here is “I don’t like Iris and I don’t ship her with Barry because she’s Black and doesn’t remain in her place.” We’ve seen the place they want for Iris, and it’s exactly where racist white women have always wanted Black women – out of sight, out of mind, and not stealing their shine.
The next section, How Do You Solve a Problem Like Snowbarrisco?, will be published shortly. In the meantime, please leave a comment to keep the discussion going.
Another great and meticulously well-argued article. I was waiting for the entire series to make a comment, but I just wanted to quickly note that the “much lauded” 2A block of The Flash was EP’d by a white woman so…
Anyway, I’m looking forward to reading and gaining more insight into the culture that gave birth to and continues to fuel Snowbarry and basically the AnybodyBut(black)Iris movement. Thanks.
I actually don’t feel comfortable placing the blame on that particular woman, because she was still working in conjunction with Andrew Kreisburg, who not only ranked above her, but was just ousted for sexually harassing the writing staff on The Flash.
Thank you for the compliment! There are at least a few more articles about this topic, and I hope you enjoy what I have left to say!
But wasn’t AK still helming the show even after that? When Iris was lifted out of “her place” and put into the “upset the hierarchy” place? I still blame Gabrielle Stanton and will never watch anything associated with her again. She also produced for Vampire Diaries. That’s two shows she’s been associated with that treated its black women character horribly. It’s a shame too because she used to work with Shonda Rhymes. It’s crazy to me that as soon as she was gone (which happened pretty fast), Iris’ storylines got better and they lifted her into her rightful place (to us, not the racists). I don’t think it was AK because he was still there for Season 2B when things turned around.
I agree with you on EVERYTHING else though… but Gabrielle Stanton… She might as well be part of the 53% to me.
I’m almost 100% certain that the executive who left because she felt harassed by AJK was Gabrielle Stanton, and even if it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason she left was because she felt like she didn’t have any power. It’s not as if she ranked ABOVE AJK or even that she was on the same level as him, not to mention that she was the only female producer amongst a sea of men. And I don’t feel comfortable blaming her for TVD when she didn’t even make the majority of the decisions – that was all Julie Plec.
Stanton left around Christmas 2015, which means that they were likely filming the 13th or 14th episodes, and Iris started getting decent storylines as soon as the season picked up in episode 11 of season 2. It’s inaccurate to say that she’s the reason she got sidelined when she left just after showrunning for episodes where she was a pivotal part of them. My honest opinion is that AJK was happy with the newest woman that Barry got to date, but it’s not like he was ignorant to the comics. He still loved Iris and Candice – as Gabrielle, according to what she herself said – he’s just a colossal creep who deserves every piece of shit he gets in life.
So much truth tea! Where do I even start? The whole Strong Black Woman trope is literally the soundtrack to my life. I can probably count on one hand how many times I’ve seen women in my family cry or talk about their feelings. My oldest sister is seen as an oddball because she’s ‘too sensitive’. Needless to say there are women in my family currently being treated for depression and anxiety. Such a vicious cycle. I do love seeing Iris being strong and emotionally mature but as you’ve stated it is important that we see her getting to express her feelings and for them to be validated by other characters. Which is why it pissed me off when Cisco said it seemed like she didn’t want Barry back. Umm hello. She’s been with this guy for most of her life. That was an absurd thing to say.
The newfound lovers of Journalist Iris are so transparent. It’s pretty obvious what their motives are. It’s exactly as you described. They want her away from the action and most importantly, away from Barry. It’s season 4 and you can literally feel how these haters are seething about ‘what an awful character Iris has turned into’ while her actual fans are loving her character development and so is the media. How interesting!
Unpopular opinion but I don’t loathe season 2a Iris the way most IW fans do. Only because we did get to see her being an investigative journalist and have scenes with Linda Park and her mother. This is also when we learn she can’t cook (when Joe brought Wally to CCPD and asked him to dinner, he proposes Iris cook and she makes a quip about not wanting to kill the kid they just met lol). Most IW fans don’t seem to recall this and think her not being a good cook is new canon because they’ve blocked out much of 2a. I honestly do not think the EPs and writers intentionally tried to devalue her character. When you read their interviews they legit thought they were giving her an arc. They just flopped at it. Apparently they don’t know how to write for her when she’s not the active love interest. As soon as Patty was gone, you could feel the shift back to Iris. Also it seemed to me they were trying to limit her interactions with Barry to lessen the chances of people claiming she was trying to interfere in Barry’s relationship with Patty (which some did anyway). When the teaser came out featuring her going to confess to Barry about her long lost little bro, there were protests of her somehow scheming to take him away from Patty. Some seemed like they expected her to interfere earlier like she did with Linda. Unfortunately the show fell back on tired tropes and underestimated how much action takes place at STAR Labs. So her not being there made her seem irrelevant. 2b was just so much better.
We Are The Flash is my jam. Love it!
The fact that you have women in your family being treated for depression and anxiety but your sister is treated as an oddball is precisely why it was so important to watch Iris getting to let her emotions out. It’s a harmful trope for women in real-life, so as much as this show irritates me sometimes, I love that they did that with Iris. I had to take a very long time to forgive Cisco for that, because it seemed incredibly heartless considering everything she’d gone through in the past year, almost to the point where it was almost out of character. In what universe would anyone actually think that Iris didn’t want Barry back? What kind of sense does that make?
Nobody who’s screaming about Iris’ job actually wants her to be a journalist. They want her to leave so no one unworthy can interfere with their fantasy of a bunch of nerds saving the day with science and superpowers. They don’t care about her and I doubt they ever will, so they may as well save their effort and stop pretending.
I don’t loathe 2A for precisely the reasons you said. They were incredibly stretched thin with LoT and even though the moments they gave Iris weren’t frequent, they were extremely powerful. All of Iris’ scenes with her mother moved the plot forward; her scenes of journalism developed her character; her scenes with Linda strengthened their friendship. I don’t think it was that they didn’t know HOW to write her as much as what they were giving her wasn’t enough, since HOW they were writing her was fine. They just gave more focus to Barry’s love interest, who wasn’t all that well-written herself. I agree with the relationship stuff, though of course she still got blamed for that.
Glad you love it, I hope you enjoy the rest!
But Season 2A didn’t falter on giving Caitlin an abundance of screen time – more than Iris OR Patty combined. Season 2A with GS as EP was horrible and nearly disastrous for Iris. That’s also when the crossover happened with Iris getting ONE line. You can’t chalk all of that up to the action taking place at Star Labs when the show focused SO much on Caitliln. Even giving Caitlin the space to talk about and grieve Ronnie while immediately falling for Jay/Hunter/Zoom. Yes, I know that was meant to tie into a lot of backstory for 2B, but they didn’t need to focus SO much on that and even the way they did it really forced a Caitlin on top of the show hierarchy. But you’re right – I have blocked out much of Season 2A – it was just so horrible and triggering for me as a black woman I had a hard time watching it because I was just SO angry about how sidelined Iris was.
We’re going to have to agree to disagree on Gabrielle Stanton.
Those crossovers are ALWAYS written by men. ALWAYS. Men who are more concerned with the guys on the show doing cool things and the women being pretty decoration. One of those people was Marc Guggenheim. I don’t understand how you think Gabrielle Stanton swanned in and suddenly had more control over two men who had been friends with Berlanti for years, two other male producers, and Berlanti himself.
The show focused on Caitlin as a means for her to move onto Jay; even so, it was of little substance. Season 2 for Caitlin was literally the Ronnie story all over again, except this time we saw her falling in love with the guy. Caitlin was never forced to the top of the show hierarchy; Patty was. Just because her fans didn’t notice because a white girl was at the top, it doesn’t mean she was. Narratively, Caitlin’s never been the woman at the top, because the person who’s at the top is always the woman who’s most important to Barry. Maybe it’s just me, but I always rate quality over quantity, and Caitlin has literally been standing around that lab doing exposition and fixing people up for four years. Just because she got more screentime devoted to it during season 2, it doesn’t mean that her character was truly developed or pushed in any way.
I don’t mean to come off as rude, but to me, Caitlin’s “importance” has always been the myth of quality vs. quantity – whenever she gets a lot of it, people think she’s important, but when you analyse it, more often than not it’s never as good as what Iris gets.
Honestly, the only reasons I was watching 2A were Barry, Iris, Joe, Zoom, and the promise that Patty and LoT would leave so I would get my show back.
It’s not just you, Vivian. I judge based on quality over quantity as well. I just watched season 2 on DVD and there’s no way I’d ever say that Caitlin got the better storyline or focus in that season. Most of it was her standing in Star Labs and her being kidnapped by Zoom. There was nothing that equated to character development. We actually learned more about Iris outside of Barry. I personally don’t judge characters based on screen time but on the substance the characters are given. There’s no denying that they could’ve done better by Iris West’s character in 2A but I just don’t believe there’s this huge conspiracy like some of her stans do. And I’m saying this as a black woman who primarily watches this show for her.
Caitlin’s storyline in season 2 was almost insultingly empty. It was just to give her something to do and KIND OF indicate that her trauma was going to turn her into Killer Frost. And the fact that her fans didn’t notice told me that since she had the most screentime, that’s all they really care about. That’s why this hashtag is such bullshit – it’s because Iris gets more screentime than Caitlin this season. Caitlin is the EXACT same person she was four years ago, just nicer and with an alter ego. She hasn’t GONE anywhere.
Iris had an arc outside of Barry that was entirely too short, but it’s still there. I totally agree with the lack of conspiracy – knowing what I know about AJK, I firmly believe that he was just not concerned with the women on the show unless they were around Barry.
Gosh, as depressing as some of these pieces are, I’m so happy that the race-based hate for Iris is being tackled by more and more people.
I tend to try to avoid places where the hate is at its most aggressive, however after reading your thesis (lol) I’m no longer going to let these KKK anti-Iris Flash “fans” slag her off without any kind of pushback. I’m no longer going to let them sit so comfortably in their hate without calling them out on their bullshit.
Your posts have made me realise that only by calling people out on their racism will things change. When I say change, I don’t mean hearts and minds will be swayed, but they will certainly think twice about saying such heinous things about Iris publicly.
When the We Are The Flash flame-out was happening, I had a long running “debate” with a popular Flash video reactor, he’d always been mostly hateful towards Iris, but I called him out on his internalized racism (I was in Hotep Central) and his misogynoir and after that back and forth, he’s a lot less vocal about Iris’s place on the show these days. His mind wasn’t changed, but honestly I didn’t care about changing his mind, I just wanted him to stop hating on Iris. Now whenever he has something negative to say about her, he adds a disclaimer, because he knows that Iris fans are ready to go in if he’s disrespectful.
It’s not ideal, but no longer will I let Iris Haters’ wrong views go unchecked, and I have you to thank for my renewed energy.
I do try to make them funny, but you’re right, the hate can be horrible.
Anti-Iris fans are why I avoid the Flash Facebook page. I dislike Reddit on principle, but after spending time there for research for this, my resolve has strengthened.
I’m glad that I’ve given you confidence to call people out on their racism!
I tend to dislike the most popular reaction people because they tend to be the typical comic book fanboy and yes, the amount of times I’ve seen Black men engaging in the same kind of racist buffoonery they cry about when it happens to them with regard to Iris. I think you did a good thing. Because if enough people keep getting called out about it, then hopefully they’ll start to listen to what people are saying if not just to stop people from harassing them haha. That disclaimer is all yours, be proud of it!
Thank you for reading, that means a great deal <3
Wow! Your writing skill is just stellar!
I wanted to know, unless I missed it, what, if any, culpability do you think some of the actors have in the Iris hatred? Specifically, Danielle Panabaker.
From what I know, she actively supported SB in interviews and articles, and she encouraged the SB fandom for a long time. I don’t know if the producers or writers gave her permission to do this because some shows like to create shipper wars for ratings. I don’t know if her friendship with Andrew Kreisberg made her feel invulnerable to criticism for doing this also. She seems to be towing the line now that Andrew’s gone.
And she has been silent when the haters include her in negative tweets to CP and “The Flash” writers. As far as I know, Danielle has never attempted to shame them or silence them. Has she blocked them? Has she publicly stood up for Candice against these attacks? I don’t know.
It’s only since the 2017 San Diego Comic Con that DP actually dismissed SB questions and affirmed that Barry was in love with Iris. For a long time now, my intuition told me that DP and CP don’t really gel outside of the workplace. I can tell they just do what’s needed to film scenes with each other.
And I’ve known about and liked DP since “Sky High”. So, it’s not like I disliked her from the start, but I’ve come to dislike and distrust her since I saw her shenanigans in this show regarding Candice’s position as lead actress and the main love interest.
I think that, had Danielle done more to support Candice’s position as lead actress and pushed back when she saw attacks from her fans, things might have settled down more with these people. Instead, her fans take her silence to mean support for their attacks, and they defend Caitlin/DP because CP/Iris has “stolen” her “rightful” place as the lead and Barry’s true love.
I know Grant Gustin has actively blocked some haters and pushed back a bit. I give him a bit of a pass since he’s newer to this type of fame than DP, and he doesn’t strike me as a forceful personality. However, among the younger actors, Danielle Panabaker is arguably the most famous before coming to this show and should know better than to encourage support from fans that attack her co-worker.
I’ve seen Carlos, John Wesley Shipp, Jesse L. Martin, Violet Beane, Keiynan, and even Tom stand up for Candice publicly, but I can’t say I’ve seen Danielle Panabaker do that. Perhaps you have evidence that DP has done so for Candice.
Adora, I truly wouldn’t hold your breath regarding evidence that Panabaker has ever publicly stood up for Candice. During season one, she fanned those Snowbarry flames, and gave the racist shippers even more reason to forget their home training, and helped intensify their hate for Candice and Iris. I watched an interview that she did with the Afterbuzz folks from season one, and even though I wasn’t that invested in West Allen at the time, her response to questions about Snowbarry was more than enough to have me side-eyeing her.
Oh and quiet as it’s kept, her performances are constantly the weakest of them all. She can’t emote to save her life.
This is also addressed to Kendall underneath you:
So my editors and I had a long back and forth over whether we should include the actions of some of the actors in the stuff that contributed to the erasure that Candice/Iris suffered. I initially mentioned that some fans felt that Danielle was partially responsible for what was going on but that I didn’t feel comfortable making a judgement on it because it’s a controversial topic; we eventually decided to remove it because it was getting off-topic.
I still feel that way. There is a reason we decided to limit this series to what FANS did as opposed to anyone else, because it’s hard to pinpoint their motivations. With Danielle supporting Snowbarry, it COULD be her wanting it to happen, or it COULD be her not wanting to shut down something her fans were obviously enthusiastic about because she – along with the rest of the cast – works in a business where audience reaction is paramount. I do have my own opinions about that whole situation, but in my capacity as author of this series, I feel it would be irresponsible for me to put it out there when I’m trying to focus on what fans think. Besides which, from studying their fandom and attitude for a while, I can safely tell you that the SB fandom would have continued whether or not Danielle supported it, because Caitlin is just a self-insert to a lot of them. I do agree that The CW, being what it is, probably liked the ship wars. And I’m not immune to the favouritism they appeared to show towards the white women on the show.
I would like to reiterate that I feel wholly uncomfortable that people keep bringing up Danielle’s friendship with Andrew Kreisburg, especially in light of his accusations, if not because it’s become one of those fandom things where one person says one thing and then everyone repeats it. Danielle was hired because of Greg Berlanti AND Andrew Kreisburg; to my knowledge, Andrew is just the one who spoke about it more. Danielle actually worked with Greg before.
I have no idea what Danielle does with regard to the people who hate on Candice and mention her, and I don’t feel comfortable speculating. I also don’t feel comfortable speculating about personal relationships between the cast; that’s not what this is about. What they do outside of the workplace doesn’t have anything to do with their jobs.
Like I’ve said, I don’t know what Danielle’s motivations are/were, but I’m pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of her fans who engage in this behaviour wouldn’t have cared about what she said.
I think it’s admirable that members of the cast have shown public support for Candice. I, again, can’t speak to any of the cast members’ motivations, but I do know that Grant Gustin already dealt with a lot of abuse from the Glee fandom, like insults, body-shaming, death-threats etc., so I wouldn’t be surprised if he decided to simply not engage with that side of fandom. Besides, they’ve both spoken about how close they are and I think it’s pretty obvious that they’re friends and supportive of each other. With Danielle, the thing I recall is a DragonCon interview where the moderator told Candice to her face how much he hated Iris because she didn’t know the secret, and Danielle pointed out that the men were all lying to her. I don’t keep up with Danielle, so I couldn’t tell you what she’s said with regard to the racism.
I haven’t seen that Afterbuzz interview, so I can’t comment on that.
Please understand that this isn’t an attack on you. I’m not even saying that I disagree with anything you’ve said, just that I feel it would be irresponsible of me, in this position, to comment on all this stuff. If it were my own blog, it would be different. But these topics are all pretty controversial, and there is a chance that the actors and writers themselves could read this since people keep tweeting it to them.
VivianK –
I can appreciate your response and your sense of responsibility for sticking to the actions of the fans.
And I do understand that the SB fans would have continued despite what Danielle did or said. However, I still believe the onus is on Danielle to take some of the air out of the SB balloon. Yes, she works in an industry where “audience reaction is paramount”, but so does Grant, so does Carlos, Jesse, Violet, etc. And yet they stood up for Candice.
The fact is that Danielle is now shutting down SB in interviews starting in summer 2017, finally. So, something or someone must have put a stop to it.
One of the things I like about Candice is that she supports the story that is currently going on. When Barry was dating Patty, she was asked how Iris felt and she told the reporter that Iris wants Barry to be happy and loved. I’m paraphrasing, but the point is she could have made a pitch for WestAllen, but she chose to support the current storyline. CP could have alienated the WestAllen fandom a little by doing that, but she made what I deem to be the most professional choice. That wasn’t the case with Danielle, who, while Caitlin was actively in a love story with Ronnie, chose to support Snowbarry. That’s at least suspicious behavior for an acting professional to do.
I recall one tweet a year or so ago where one of the fans quoted DP as agreeing that she missed Snowbarry scenes. The fan gushed, “She’s one of us guys!”. So, yes, the fans do follow her lead and influence.
I won’t belabor the point, and thanks for your kind response. I’m just recalling an MLK Jr. quote that says, “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.”
Thank you for your response!
I absolutely agree with you about the Snowbarry fans being encouraged by Danielle supporting it, and I agree that not supporting the story that your character is currently involved in comes across as unprofessional. I fortunately remember exactly the interview you were talking about, and I think I mentioned in one of the earlier articles that one of the reasons I thought Snowbarry was bigger than it was when I started watching was because Danielle herself kept talking about, whereas Candice always just went along with what Iris was doing.
I also remember the quote you were talking about, but I seem to remember the situation a little differently, as a lot of fans then pointed out what she actually said was she missed having scenes in STAR Labs, and they took it to mean Snowbarry scenes. Danielle’s actions COULD have been as innocent as knowing that her fans liked a storyline and being savvy enough to not shut it down (as innocent/not innocent as that is)…or it could be more nefarious than that. I know that they do follow her lead, but a lot of them simply ignore what the actors say. A lot of them completely ignore that Grant Gustin has never wavered from Iris being the love of Iris’ life and has disliked Snowbarry from the beginning, even though he, as you said, has blocked Snowbarry shippers and called people out for being mean to his costars. I recall one Snowbarry shipper who literally dismisses what the actors, writers and producers say because, according to her, they’re just going with what’s popular – and a LOT of the fandom behaves this way. We’ll get into it in later articles, but a lot of them simply ignore whatever they say to support their agenda.
I think the reason I’m so reluctant to talk about this is because I truly don’t KNOW what anybody’s motivations are, and I don’t like speculating on a public forum. Honestly if this were my blog you and I would already be in deep discussion and you’d probably know exactly where I stand on the matter.
What I WILL say is that no matter how you slice it, there was an interview from the beginning of the series where Danielle and a journalist talked about the hate they both got for shipping Snowbarry, while completely ignoring the racist hate that Candice got simply for doing her job. And even if I don’t feel comfortable speculating, that pretty much speaks for itself.
Danielle P just promoted the RunIrisRun episode on her instagram by posting a snap shot of a scene of that episode that had every cast member in it —- except Iris.
An episode titled Run-Iris-Run, featuring Iris as a speedster.
And DP promotes it by posting a group picture that excluded Iris.
Let that sink in.
Vivian, you’re a fantastic writer. The level of research that went into this series is admirable. But more impressive is your ability to create these lengthy pieces without having your points go off topic. Have you considered writing for a publication that pays? No offense to this website, but your writing is worth paying for.
Thank you! I wish I could say that it was purely because I was thinking about it for a long time, and I wanted to properly articulate my thoughts, but it’s mostly because I was mad and I had time haha.
I haven’t, actually. I’m truthfully not a writer at all, it’s just a hobby. But I’ll think about it, thank you!
This series has been both validating and triggering for me. But mostly validating because I’ve seen everything you’ve mentioned but not had the right words to fully break it down and fully explain what was happening. I knew it was racism and was able to explain some of it – but wow you’ve done an AMAZING job. I wish this could get passed to the EPs so they would NEVER forget how racism actually works and WHY these fans are so entitled and so sure they should have what they want and WHY it’s all based on racism. Amazing writing. I can’t stop reading.
I really should have put trigger warnings on it, haha. I’m glad I was able to articulate some thoughts for you, even though we disagree on some stuff. I think, for me, the key was making sure I knew were a specific attitude came from, because I was getting sick of people saying that “oh all the Iris fans think you’re racist when you say you hate her” as if people are that stupid.
If an EP actually admitted to reading this I would love it. I saw some people putting it in the writer’s mentions, which would definitely make a change from that pathetic hashtag. I hope you enjoy the final parts?