Your Fave Is Problematic: Taylor Swift’s “You Belong With Me”
Moving on, Laurel and Iris are pretty assertive. While Felicity and Caitlin were certainly not doormats in the first season, they were very different. Like I said, the former two fit the whole plucky girl image, with Laurel being a Crusading Lawyer and Iris being the Intrepid Reporter, and both are extremely confident. Felicity and Caitlin, however, are more the Adorkable nerdy girl. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this, personally. But, again, my problem is how a lot of it is received.
Certain shippers kept saying that Laurel and Iris were abusive towards Oliver and Barry (side note: words mean things, people), and that neither deserved the men who wanted them. Their actions were either taken out of context, while Felicity and Caitlin were perfect alternatives because they didn’t go against what Oliver and Barry wanted, and they wouldn’t reject them if given the opportunity. This bled into fanfiction, where Laurel and Iris were Alpha Bitches (a lot of these took place in high school, unsurprisingly) who either ignored or rejected their love interests so Felicity and Caitlin could swoop in and save them. Or Laurel and Iris would be insanely jealous of the other woman and do something heinous, so the men could come in and save them. Or, my personal favourite, slut-shame them without evidence. This isn’t a thing that’s exclusive to the Arrowverse, or even to TV – it happens across all media, even music.
I was listening to “You Belong With Me” recently (remember when Taylor Swift was country? How time flies), and wondering why I deleted it from my iPod years ago. I was a teenager in 2009 so Taylor Swift lyrics are total recall for me, but for those who don’t remember:
You’re on the phone with your girlfriend
She’s upset
She’s going off about something that you said
‘Cause she doesn’t get your humour like I do
I’m in my room
It’s a typical Tuesday night
I’m listening to the kind of music she doesn’t like
And she’ll never know your story like I do
But she wears short skirts
I wear T-shirts
She’s cheer captain
And I’m on the bleachers
Dreaming about the day when you wake up
And find that what you’re looking for has been here the whole time
Swift is talking about being in love with a guy that has a horrible girlfriend, with the idea being that she knows him better – hence the title, “You Belong With Me.” But something always irked me about the lyrics, and I realised what it was – it’s not really about how much she likes the guy so much as it is how much she hates the girl he’s dating and thinks she’s better than her. Before we’ve even gotten to the chorus, she’s slut-shamed the girl. Later she talks about the girlfriend being “cheer captain and I’m on the bleachers,” which of course is supposed to invoke an image of Regina George or some other teen movie Alpha Bitch. And the reason I stopped liking the song is because it’s juvenile and misogynistic – worse, it’s the kind of misogyny that women throw at each other because men do it to us all the time, and that’s how we know it hurts. And it’s the kind of misogyny that pits women against each other for the approval of men, an implicit acknowledgement of the fact that men are at the top of the social hierarchy and we have to throw other women under the bus to get to the top. Yeah, it’s the 21st century, but shaming women for being confident and sexual isn’t something that we’ve left behind. And certain shippers framing themselves as the pure, innocent girl-next-door in a Taylor Swift song so that they can demonise Laurel and Iris speaks to a very specific brand of internalised misogyny that probably comes from that high school resentment I mentioned.
Look, I have been the shy, nerdy girl who lacked confidence. I wanted the Alpha Bitch knocked down a peg or two, and I would have loved it if I were the one to do it. And I certainly wouldn’t have turned my nose up at landing the hottest guy in school. And even though I like to think I’m much more mature than I was in school, I still lack confidence some of the time. But I – and Taylor – grew up. And the hatred of Laurel and Iris, in earlier seasons and now for Iris, was eerily indicative of a resentment of the popular girl who rejects the hero, so the adorkable nerd can be used as an escapist character to save the hero from the evil Alpha Bitch, because she clearly deserves him more.
Why do certain shippers feel this way about these women? It could be that the hero already loves his love interest, despite the fact that she clashes with him. Or maybe because she has the confidence to go after what she wants. Or maybe it’s simply because certain shippers projected their own feelings of being the shy nerdy girl in high school onto Caitlin and Felicity and therefore took out their resentment on the nearest character who fit the Alpha Bitch stereotype – Iris and Laurel – because they got the hero’s love without trying but didn’t “deserve” him because they weren’t showing him affection on schedule. I have no problem with people shipping whatever they choose. But throwing misogynistic hate, slutshaming, and shoving characters into stereotypes so you can justify hating them is not a good look.
The next part, Hot Nerds, Strong Females, and Elitist Fanboys, will be published shortly.
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This is a great read! It put into words a lot of how I felt watching these shows – frustrated on behalf of all the ladies.
Frustrated is often the word. Half the time their emotions are used as ways to bash them, when the men on these shows overreact like babies all the time.
I feel like a lot of the criticisms toward Iris dismiss the fact that while assertive when in counts, she’s actually really effing nice most of the time. She’s nice to everyone, including the woman who conspiried to kill her and never apologized. Seriously, she’s a helluva lot nicer than Felicity, who even at her best had a tendency to take bitchy shots at people.
What bitchy shots? Felicity and Iris are alike in a lot of ways. They’re by far the most selfless ppl in the arrowverse, they constantly put their feelings ahead of others.
Felicity has constantly made shots at other women; Helena, McKenna, Moira and Amanda at their own funerals, her own mother (appearance and career), Nyssa when she was being forced to marry Oliver and sometimes Sara. Its one of Felicity’s most consistent traits about how she treats other women.
You are literally throwing false accusations. Felicity did not take potshots at everyone you named above. She hated Helena because that one pointed an arrow at Felicity then tied her up. She disliked Moira because Felicity is protective of Oliver. With Sara it was more a case of Felicity feeling like she herself was losing her purpose on the team as Sara seems to be capable of doing everything A-Z. If you have a fantastic relationship with your mother, good for you, but not everyone is that lucky.
Felicity DOES take potshots at people. It doesn’t necessarily make her an awful person, but you can’t just ignore it because there’s a reason. Disliking Moira because she feels protective of Oliver (Moira’s CHILD) doesn’t give her the right to shit-talk Moira at her own funeral and it certainly doesn’t mean nobody’s going to think it’s a terrible move. What, exactly, what she protecting Oliver from when she said that his mother was diabolical? He wasn’t even around – she was talking to Diggle.
When Felicity said those things about Sara, it didn’t mean that she was a horrible person, just that she was insecure, which is fine. Insecurity is a perfectly normal human trait. But it doesn’t mean it wasn’t a potshot. And Felicity insulting her mother’s clothes and career choices doesn’t seem like she has a bad relationship with her mother; it seems like she looks down on her. At least, from my perspective.
Perhaps my phrasing could’ve been better. I wasn’t refuting the fact she took potshots. Who doesn’t? Every character in the show has done it, & certainly Felicity has been the target of some of those. I meant that while it’s true in a few cases, not all as named had been on the receiving end.
From what had been portrayed earlier on the show, it didn’t seem like a good mother-daughter relationship. But no denying Felicity was rude in saying those things to her mother, & I was glad Donna rebuked her.
OK, I see what you mean now. I do think that the writers try so hard to make her quirky that her one-liners come off as selfish, but I don’t think that about her all the time. Unfortunately, a lot of the time if you add them all up it does present a picture that Felicity is especially insecure around other woman she perceives to be a threat to her relationship with Oliver, but I think that’s actually more to do with how Marc and Wendy (and probably specifically Marc) write her.
I don’t think it was a good relationship either, but I don’t think the potshots are a bad thing, you know? But I also can’t deny that it doesn’t make her look like a great person all the time. I was glad Donna rebuked her too.
I feel like a lot of the criticisms of Iris are usually overblown, and one of the reasons is just because she has emotions. It’s the same thing with Felicity after she became Oliver’s love interest.
I think with the shit-talking the writers intended for it to be quirky and maybe show that she puts her foot in her mouth sometimes, but I do agree that it becomes too much at points.
Your article would have been a better piece had you watched all of Arrow (beyond season 3) and actually seen that a lot of the comments you say Laurel received is what Felicity received once she became a love interest by the misogynistic fanboys.
Also Olicity and Snowbarry aren’t a like and didn’t have the same trajectory.
I think one main point you seemed to have missed Laurel was that fans didn’t like her with Oliver because of the lack of chemistry and the cheating and lies that were a main part of their relationship. Felicity brought a different dynamic to both Oliver and the show and a lot of fans gravitated towards that. The fanboys who preferred Felicity over Laurel back in season 1/2 were the same fanboys(not all) who all attacked Felicity for having a voice and standing up to Oliver.
If you’ll notice, the author of the article actually says that:
“How do I know this is the case? Well, look at the reaction to Felicity then and Felicity during season 3.”
“…every comment that wasn’t condemning Iris for ordering Cisco (a man and a scientist, which we’ll circle back to) around was fury at Felicity’s survival. Some of it was reserved for Curtis; the vast majority were about Felicity.
She wasn’t even in the video.
That’s when it hit me. Felicity had become the Skyler, replacing Laurel as the most important woman in Oliver’s life.”
I’m not…quite sure how to answer this? Because I think with everything apart from chemistry (which I should have mentioned that I’m not going to talk about, it being subjective), I’ve covered everything here. But maybe I wasn’t clear, so I’ll try again:
1) Since I’m comparing why people shipped one over the other, I only need to look at the earlier seasons when none of the characters were together i.e. their personalities and events that happened at the beginning of the show. I don’t need to have watched the whole thing – in fact, I’d only actually need to watch earlier seasons since they were both there from the beginning. Moreover, misogyny doesn’t magically appear after 100 episodes.
2) As Tatiana mentioned, I did include a section that said that when Felicity started to stand up for herself, she started getting the same hate that Laurel did – because most of it was based in sexism and misogyny. I would have liked to write more, but there was a word limit. Perhaps you missed it? But yes, I also noticed that as soon as Felicity became a person to Oliver and the audience, rather than “quirky hot woman”, she got more hate. Sure, some of her writing was questionable, but who on that show didn’t suffer from that?
3) One of the reasons I wanted to write this is because I don’t believe Olicity and Snowbarry are the same. I think people who glance at it (fanboys, mostly) think that it is, just because they’re both non-canon ships. Olicity actually exists, for one thing. But in order to come to a conclusion about how they’re different, I have to discuss the ways in which they’re the same, superficial as they are.
4) As I said, I’m not discussing chemistry, I talk about the toxicity, and I WILL talk about a different dynamic, just not now. This is a series, not a standalone article, which is why I keep saying we’re going to publish other things next.
5) Yes. I do, really and truly, get the misogyny. I mentioned it. At least three times.
Holy shit, this article is ILLUMINATING. I came to the Arrow fandom late – Season 5 (I did watch all the other Arrowverse shows from their inception) – and for the life of me I couldn’t get how Felicity was almost canonized on Previously TV, and at the same time on Reddit they were essentially burning her in effigy. I like her – I don’t love her, I don’t hate her. Your argument on how she was a Girl Friday turned Skylar White is the most logical interpretation I’ve ever heard. Kudos for this.
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoy it and hope you continue to find it illuminating! I think the hatred of Felicity from fanboys vs. the hero worship from her fans is extremely fascinating because it’s just SO bizarre. But I’m glad I’m able to offer an explanation for it, especially as I used this to work through it myself. I don’t hate her but I certainly don’t love her, but the thing that annoys me most about her isn’t even her – it’s the way the writers treat her. A lot of the time they make her do things and don’t think about how it reflects back on her.
Anyway, I digress – I hope you enjoy the rest!
I understand your overarching point & appreciate your efforts in highlighting the issue at the heart of the comics fandom & its reflection on society. For the most part you hit the mark in your dissection. But here’s my take on the character of Laurel. I tuned into Arrow from the very first episode without any preconceived notion or even knowing it was based on comics, so I didn’t care who the love interest was. The more I watched the less I liked Laurel because I found her to be a snob and I get the distinct impression she was a “crusading lawyer” because that’s a stepping stone to her goal of being DA. I applaud her for being ambitious, but to me, it cast a shadow on the purity of her motive working in CNRI.
As for the love you speak of between her and Oliver, I don’t see it from the get-go despite the show trying so hard to portray. If he actually loved her he wouldn’t be continually cheating on her, he wouldn’t have run away with her sister the minute she pushed for them to cohabitate. On Lian Yu I see a man determined to make it back home to apologise to Laurel & atone, In fact I could see deeper feelings between Oliver & Sara than him with Laurel. I see Laurel as just being addicted to Oliver, because he was part of her vision for her life, being DA & Mrs Oliver Queen. I feel she should display more strength as a woman by dumping Oliver & show more loyalty to Tommy.
I like Felicity not because she’s quirky, funny & superintelligent. I identify with her loyalty & fierceness in protecting people important to her & even people important to those she cares about. She stood with Oliver from the very start & regardless of their romantic status.
Despite what she read in the media about pre-island Oliver, she seems to see the inherent good in him so she continued to help him even before she knew his secret, ignoring his nonsense stories.
I like that she knows her self-worth & doesn’t accept being treated as anything less but still shows respect and defers to Oliver where it’s due. She’s not prone to self-pity.
Yes she’s snarky & lashes out when she’s emotionally hurt. Like you said, she’s human. & that’s how some humans react, such as Laurel and Thea. So Felicity needs self-improvement in that department, hopefully the writers enable it.
As for comics fanboys complaining about screen time I assure you they’re exaggerating and whinging about nothing. In 4×01 the most relationship-heavy episode, Felicity was involved in just 15mins of the 40+ minutes show & it’s always with other characters. In fact the screentime focusing on just Laurel was much longer than of Felicity being alone onscreen.
Apologies this got lengthy. Thank you for reading.
I appreciate your comments on my article, and they were very well-written.
But I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn’t trying t imply that these are the ONLY reasons that people started shipping them, rather that there were common reasons that came up in other couples that I noticed. I can’t argue with your interpretation of the show because it’s yours, but I definitely saw love between Oliver and Laurel – I just thought it was buried. All the qualities you say you saw in Felicity I saw in Laurel, and I certainly never found her wanting to be “Mrs. Oliver Queen”. Feminism is about making your own choices, no matter how bad they are, so I don’t think that sticking with Oliver just because she wanted to makes her a bad woman.
I never listen to Fanboys, especially when it pertains to the latest woman that’s offended them.
Thank you for reading and I hope you continue to enjoy the rest of the series.
Yes I’m aware of the parameters you’re working with. I was only presenting a little bit of my perception of these two female characters constantly pitted against each other by a vocal segment of the audience in social media. The fandom wars are pretty amusing to me at times.
Your series has been interesting; I’m up to “Canon, Chlois…” now. & yes, I will continue reading till the end.
I agree that these women are needlessly pitted against each other, and honestly it makes it very hard to enjoy these shows sometimes. I do appreciate you giving me your perspective thought!
I also really enjoyed writing that section, so I hope you enjoy it, and thank you again.
If you want to write about really equal couples, then you should write about Sara and Oliver – Canary and Arrow. They were the couple with the best writing, presented as equally bad ass, interesting, complicated and soulmates, with no drama for the sake of the drama. They were both heroes, both pushing the story forward, none was supporting character of the other, or stealing of the other character. Felicity just turned into the next Laurel. She bacame drama for the sake of drama, damsel in distress, attention seeker and her hacking became ridiculous plot device for lazy writing.
The point of this wasn’t to write about equal couples, it was to write about two couples that people often compare because they kind of fit the patterns that I mention.
Also, to me, Sara and Oliver were kind of bland BECAUSE they were so similar. Like I don’t begrudge you how you feel, but being “badass” doesn’t really sell a couple for me. I’m also hesitant to talk about “drama” because that word tends to be bandied about whenever a woman is expressing emotions that isn’t making a man smile. The fact that you said that “Felicity turned into the next Laurel” tells me that you pretty much missed the point of this. I agree that her hacking became ridiculous, but Arrow has suffered from such bad writing that I don’t feel comfortably blaming the whole thing on one character.